Tag Archive | arguments

In which i teach Jennifer Boylan about arguments

About a week ago, i asked someone to simply elaborate on why she would vote for Hillary. And without even arguing against voting such a way, i’m going to demostrate how one Hillary supporter completely fell appart at even the slightest scrutiny of her position!

This is Jennifer Boylan! And i asked her this (A greater context of the conversation):

“Is there literature available that divulges your reasons for supporting Clinton?” Twitter ~JennaGrip

This is a reasonable question, seeing as she had just tweeted her implicit support of Hillary. All i wanted to know was what her reasons for supporting Hillary in the election.
And this was her response and my response to that

“As opposed to Trump? The only literature I have is this piece of paper declaring me sane.” Twitter ~JennyBoylan

“So no real arguments then? Just your typical “lesser of two evils”?” Twitter ~JennaGrip

Which isn’t an argument for something! Simply stating that you hate one candidate isn’t the same as arguing for another! So it’s not an actual argument.

“You’ll find this shocking, but I don’t try to change people’s politics with tweets.” Twitter ~JennaBoylan

Immediately, she goes into defensive mode! Remember, all i wanted was to read something by her, wherein she defends voting for Hillary.

And i’ll have to add to this, that you shouldn’t actually go into trying to change people’s politics ever! Not in Twitter, not on Facebook, not on Instagram, not in an actual argument, not in a lecture! Not ever!
Change in people’s politics comes naturally through argumentation! I realize you don’t do that kind of stuff, but that’s the truth.

But more to the point, i didn’t even ask for that! I know, shocking, right?

That’s why I initially asked. You don’t seem to want to convince anyone anywhere. Twitter ~JennaGrip

The first sentence of my response is dead on, but the second one misread what she actually said. I even said “Convince”. As if she said “I don’t try to change people’s mind on Clinton”. But really, i was just disappointed that she wouldn’t make such an effort anywhere. Even though she does write for various different sites.

Whatever I’m trying to say, I prove it through the fact of my life. My writing’s not bad either. Twitter ~JennyBoylan

Your lived experience means absolutely nothing when it comes to argumentation! Should we automatically take Pat Robertson seriously because of his advanced age? Or maybe good ol’ George H.W? Or maybe we should discount age altogether, huh?

Your writing’s not bad either? Are you saying my writing isn’t bad? Did you mean “My writing’s not bad, either”?
You know, perhaps your writing is better than mine, but since we’re doing adhoms, can i tell you where you got that attitude? By surrounding yourself with Yes Men! Maybe you’ve kept hearing this line of compliments a little too long!

Here’s another thing on this whole “Aheim Bettar ett languich den ju!”. This isn’t my first language. Or second. It’s my third language. So if it’s not up to your highfalutin standard, i’m deeply sorry, oh, wise sage!

Or maybe i misunderstood what you said! After all, i’m just some English is my third language fuck!

Oh, you sweet thing! Twitter ~JennaGrip

This is where any hope of a real conversation ended for me, and i went into troll mode! She was already there, but now i followed suit!

If you want to read the rest, you can check the Greater context, and make up your own mind about this whole mess! I’m just glad to finally have written this, so i can put it behind me!

In summary, i’m very sad about it! Because i used to have a lot of respect for her, but after her horrible handling of even the slightest questioning, i myself have to question her handling of her questioning.

As a funny little extra, i thought it was amusing that, during this back and forth, one of her little sycophants tweeted me this:

Idea that tweeters seeking convincing actually seek to be convinced is hilarious. Twitter Elisa

Yeah, i guess you can assume that about people. Yup! Everyone else is close minded! Not you, though!

Sarcasm aside, i actually do hear people out. Don’t believe me? Then let’s debate, @TrulyTG

Hierarchy of disagreement

I came across this in my facebook timeline recently, and i figured i would do an exercise where i try to replicate what the author had in mind for each of these segments.

“Communism will end most sexism because when we’re not competing with eachother over resources and everything is 100% fair, women don’t get left out in the dust with lower wages because they hold positions on jobs that are lower paying. Everyone gets their share, and that share is as big as the other’s.”

“That is, assuming communism even works. It’s proven that it doesn’t give those results (Soviet union, Cuba, North Korea, etc), and at best, it has yet to be proven.
In that case, i would think human nature dictates that we are competitive as well as compasionate. So a purely communistic society could never work, because it removes the competition completely, and no one is rewarded for harder work. I think a mix of socialism and capitalism is more in line with human nature. I base this on evolutionary theory (Survival of the fitest) and human psycology. Furthermore, i would like to point out that we’re not equal. We have different set of skills and those skills are valued differently depending on what time we’re living in (Blacksmithing was once a very valued skill, and coding is a valued skill in today’s society) and in what country we live in!”

“Communism will end most sexism because when we’re not competing with eachother over resources and everything is 100% fair, women don’t get left out in the dust with lower wages because they hold positions on jobs that are lower paying. Everyone gets their share, and that share is as big as the other’s.”

“Women would still face sexism in the workforce. The pay was never a question, but it’s how women are treated (And men, too) in places where their gender isn’t, traditionally (Where they’re new). People need to be able to get to workplaces they want to be, and not be prohibited by their gender, or be made to feel uncomfortable because “their kind” are usually not the demographic. Source http://www.thenewpotato.com/2014/03/14/john-jannuzzi-on-bbq-and-being-a-straight-man-in-fashion/”

“Communism will end most sexism because when we’re not competing with eachother over resources and everything is 100% fair, women don’t get left out in the dust with lower wages because they hold positions on jobs that are lower paying. Everyone gets their share, and that share is as big as the other’s.”

“There’s nothing in capitalism that excludes equal treatment of people in the workforce (And equal pay). I think going about it with “if everyone gets equal pay, that ends the wage issue”, is akin to saying that killing every elephant would end the unethical treatment of elephants. It’s technically true, but it introduces a plethora of new issues. What i’m saying is that you don’t have to use drastic methods.”

“Communism will end most sexism because when we’re not competing with eachother over resources and everything is 100% fair, women don’t get left out in the dust with lower wages because they hold positions on jobs that are lower paying. Everyone gets their share, and that share is as big as the other’s.”

“Yet Capitalist systems around the world has made women more liberated than ever.”

“Communism will end most sexism because when we’re not competing with eachother over resources and everything is 100% fair, women don’t get left out in the dust with lower wages because they hold positions on jobs that are lower paying. Everyone gets their share, and that share is as big as the other’s.”

“Sexism!? That word gets thrown around a little too much these days. It makes you seem like you’re very partial and brainwashed, to me!”

“Communism will end most sexism because when we’re not competing with eachother over resources and everything is 100% fair, women don’t get left out in the dust with lower wages because they hold positions on jobs that are lower paying. Everyone gets their share, and that share is as big as the other’s.”

“Who are you, anyway? Just a fucking Stalin worshipper. Why don’t you pray to Stalin some more instead of wasting everyone’s time?”

“Communism will end most sexism because when we’re not competing with eachother over resources and everything is 100% fair, women don’t get left out in the dust with lower wages because they hold positions on jobs that are lower paying. Everyone gets their share, and that share is as big as the other’s.”

“Commie, fascist, Kenyan, Muslim, Atheist, Satanist, Liberal cunt!”

Keep in mind that this is just how i interpret it! I could be wrong on all points as far as i know. But it was fun to do, and i recommend other people try it as well!

Day 130: Porn harms?

In today’s post:
A rant on the anti-porn crowd. Chill day talk. New blog record! And bird brains

Porn is bad?

I accidentally got into a discussion about porn on some idiot’s video on youtube today. And it’s the same arguments you get from all anti-porn people! “Think of the children”, “look at this brand of porn? That means all porn is bad”, “I’m going to pass laws based on my opinion, even though them eating shit for sexual pleasure has nothing to do with anything, and is only bothering to me if i look it up”, etc..

He also seem to think children are stupid, and will instantly have their lives ruined the moment they see a boob or penis. It’s the human body! Just showing a vagina or whatever, won’t do much. As for the porn videos and images themselves, if you’re so deathly afraid of your kids watching porn on the internet, filter it out (It’s easy to do), talk to the kid, regulate the kid’s internet usage; actually do some fucking parenting, you fucking asshole!!!

This is the world we live in now, where people think that the government should be the parent of the child, by censoring and making everything on earth child friendly, for everyone! That’s what they want! And it’s really stupid.

This notion that porn harms, is stupid. I mean, when a person gets to a mature age, and starts getting sexual urges (Which is natural by the way. Hold on.. let me type that out again, in flashy letters, so that it can be understood.. I mean, if there’s anything people need to get, it is this: Sexual urges is natural!!!), they’re gonna want to see or experience all things sexual. At least most people are. Some are asexual. So people gravitating towards that, is not a bad thing. In fact, it’s bad not to.

One more thing. Child porn isn’t all porn! Let me repeat. Child porn, is not, all, porn! And if you want to argue bestiality, then sure. Let’s! I’m on the fence on it, myself. Because there are cases where, if i think objectively, there’s no harm in it. As for any other weird fetish. Like eating shit, BDSM, etc. There’s no harm in that. If people want to do it, and they’re not directly harming you, then what’s the big deal? Regulating people form being able to do that is just you going “Eeeewwww! I dotn liek this! So i must ban it!”, and it makes you sound like a moron!

Today

I decided to start taking brisk walks today. Where i walk really fast and work up a sweat. I want to get in shape, so that’s what i’m gonna do.

No school today, thankfully. Didn’t do any school work either. So i had a chill day today!

Played borderlands with my brother again. We’re doing the “new game+” thing, where you restart the game, but with all your skills and equipment, and more dangerous enemies.

A blog note

I’ve wanted to point this out for a long time now.

My first attempt at a daily blog has most certainly been broken now. I think that one got to around 120ish. It was on blogger. So yea! That’s always great!

Tomorrow

Will do some school work. Read up on the theoretical and then do the test, i suppose.

Today’s Image/Video

Saw this very interesting video this morning. It’s about bird brains, and the mystery of language and vocal formulation.

Brief on libertarianism

My brother was reading a report in the news paper that talked about Slab city earlier, and it got me thinking about libertarians.
To put it short, Slab city is basically a tax exempt (Fully, maybe mostly) society in the middle of nowhere (USA) where people live their lives, mostly without any government intervention. He read about police patrolling the place once everyday, but i think that’s about it. So since the government has so little say in what they do there, it’s basically a haven for libertarians.

Keep in mind that this is just Slab city. There are societies of people who have no contact with any government, who live in other types of places. All i wanted to point out with this is that living without intervention from the government is possible, and is being done by people all over the world. And of course, i’m not saying that they’re free to do anything and everything! They can’t form their own armies to overthrow the government and crazy shit like that. There are limits to even living this way…. So now that this digression is out of the way, let’s continue.

So what is a libertarian? A person who advocates civil liberty. So in theory, basically a group who focuses on individual freedom, usually accompanied by “the invisible hand of the free market” idea. I’m not going to go too deeply into any of that though, since i don’t feel that i understand it enough. I will point out the practical libertarian. The ones i have come across, and what principles they seem to hold by.

Basically, they want to limit government as much as they can. To the point where “paying taxes is against freedom”. A lot of them seem to hold to this idea, and i wonder.. Why not just contact other libertarians and form your own society, where you don’t even have to pay taxes, and you can live making your own rules and stuff? Basically living in the perfect libertarian society? I mean, if paying taxes is such a big issue for you.

But i guess you want everyone else to live this way and see it the way you do. That is fine with me, and if you want to make an actual case for how it should work, and how we could transition into the libertarian dream, then do so. Just don’t say that you don’t have to make an argument cause “You’re free not to” and don’t base everything solely on principles (Everything must be absolutely free for every individual, and damned by the consequences and the pragmatic repercussions), because that’s not convincing to anyone, and it just makes you look like a nut.

So to sum up. Make a valid case based on reality, or you could always move out and form your own society or live in a cottage somewhere, if you really hate the government’s control so much.

Day 107: Xanadu = Mars, the beautiful journey

In Today’s post:
Minor update, and some legal talk on the music app. Mars rover is beautiful. Some counter-arguments to the Mars naysayers. Blueberries and raspberries. ELO’s Xanadu

Music app update

Did some minor updates today. Mostly, i tried to figure out how to render things inside of the HTML.. I feel a bit silly, because i was one simple function away from it. Simply make an if that will only be triggered when it’s inside of the browser back-end (HTML), and everything you do inside of that if, will magically work. I swear, this back-end that i’m using (“CEF”. Chrome embedded frame) is very weird. But hey, it’s a good experience.

I did some checks on the legal aspects of my program too. It seems CEF is semi protected code, in terms of distribution. I should check the readme file it talked about. Oh, and the grooveshark and youtube implementation is a total gray zone. Because the program itself only renders HTML. That’s it! Then you can script things however you want to modify everything rendered in it. Which google chrome can do it, if you download stylish or tampermonkey. Heck, i think google chrome can even change styles on any site if you just modify a document. So i don’t know if i’ll be able to make money on the program. Not that i know if i would even do it to begin with.

Is there life on maaaaaaaaaaaarrrrsss!!!

Just to get it out of the way. Love that song, and i think it’s appropriate.

The Mars rover successfully landed on Mars. We’re currently exploring an alien world, to find life and hopefully takes some amazing pictures of the many desolate and foreign vistas of our red neighbor.

This whole achievement brings out the artsy side of me. You see so much shit out in the world, that just makes you ashamed to be a human. So it’s nice to be able to say that i’m proud of it, at least for now.

Some really beautiful things i saved today:

 

 

KXCD made a really beautiful pic. Simple, and strong.
The crew at NASA when they learned that the rover had landed safe and sound. Very beautiful as well.

Following the rover will be like an adventure to me. I’m genuinely excited for it! Feels fantastic! ^w^!!

Mars naysayers

There are the naysayers who will say that it’s a waste of money. To which i reply: Go live in a cave then, and never ever be curious about what’s beyond that hill. Oh, it’s a volcano that will kill all the humans living in that cave in about 3 generations? Well, tough luck! Maybe you should have been a little more curious, and actually want to move beyond your own comfort zone.

Another reply i have to the naysayers who make the argument that we should use the money on better things, is: Stop supporting the movie, videogame and music industry. Also, make sure to calculate exactly how useful some other things are. Like, do you really need that TV? What about that computer?

All in all. Think a little. Please.

Today

Anyway.. I wrote a lot more on those things than i thought i would. It’s been an ok day overall. I called the psychiatrist and they told me to call back next monday, and i should have a time then. If not, we were going to figure out something. Either way, i have some progress there now. Which is great.

Just ate some natural yogurt with raspberries. It got me thinking about what to do tomorrow…

Tomorrow

… I’m going to go up in the forest to pick some blue berries! It seems like it would be a fun thing to do actually. So that’s what i’m going to do tomorrow. And hopefully get the back-end done on the music program. I keep adding features on there. Committing the ultimate application-maker sin.

Today’s Image/Video

ELO made a song called Xanadu. I think it’s a cover. Either way, it made me think about the Mars rover for some reason. If you think about it:

Retorting common anti equal marriage arguments

I got a sudden urge to retort some common arguments i keep hearing from the anti equal marriage crowd.

Tradition argument:
Aside from it being weak, because you’re basically saying that tradition trumps development and inclusiveness, it’s also faulty because we’ve destroyed other traditions that we found to be wrong before. Such as: Child labor, slavery, no rights for women, and much more.. Just because it’s a tradition, doesn’t make it right. We need to be able to develop.
As a side-note, i should probably point out that, ironically, interracial-marriage was illegal, and is a tradition we’ve broken as well. It’s ironic because here we are again, making the same arguments, except for different groups of people.

Sanctity of marriage argument:
It seems to be a very broad term, that is interpreted differently from person to person. But if i get the gist of it, what they mean is that, if we let people of the same gender marry one another, marriage will no longer be a pure thing. It will be tainted, for whatever reason. It’ll be seen as this silly thing because gays just prance around, ‘n’ do nothin’ more.

Going by that, then i have to ask why you’re not more active towards wanting to ban marriages of people like snooki, britney, and other people who divorce and re-marry all the time (Not just seleberties). What about “fast-food” marriages, like the ones in Las Vegas? Where you can get married in seconds. And lest we forget, incest marriage is more accepted in the US, than marriage between two people of the same gender.
I’m just not seeing that you’re concerned with sanctity, if that is how you define it…

Bible argument:
… Unless, of course, you mean that the bible doesn’t sanction it. In which case, i suppose it does say that incest is ok.
But let me back off.. I’ve read about what the bible says, and i’ve seen the different quotes from the King James interpratation. It seems to accept a lot of different combinations between people (Which is mostly ok with me, so long as the people involved consent to it). But i doubt many Christians that are against equal marriage really knows about it, and if they do, they probably don’t follow it (Because no one follows everything it says. Just that which falls in line with their narrow view. And it’s narrow because if you only take morals from the bible, you’re missing out on many of the different morals you can learn from other people of different beliefs. But i digress). So let’s ignore what the bible says about marriage, because it’s just really confusing, and no one seems to agree on it anyway. Also, it’s a 2000+ old book full of fairytales, translated many times, tampered with by the King James and who knows who else. It’s not reliable.

All i really have to say is that not everyone are Christian, and not all Christians subscribe to the gay bashing that the bible espouses. You’re imposing your religion by saying that the bible is against dem gays getting married. And i don’t know how to convince you that doing that is wrong. If that is the only argument you have, then you obviously don’t care about making a good case for your view.

Homosexuals are worse parents:
Ok, look. I’ve been fed information saying both. One study that the young turks talked about that said that homosexual parents are better, and one study from a creationist that said they were worse parents.
Personally, i think none of that matters, and i think that thinking it does is no worse than a racist saying that “dem blacks are worse parents” (Which i don’t know anything about. I was just using it as an example). Because one group of people are going to be worse than another group of people. Truth to be told, we’re all on differnt levels when it comes to parenting and what not. I think race, gender and sexual orientation is inconsiquential.

DISCLAIMER: The young turks opinion on the study, from what i recall, was about the same as mine. They didn’t think it mattered. So don’t think they pointed it out in support of equal marriage. I don’t want to make it sound like that, and misrepresent them.

Slippery slope argument:
Is a logical fallacy. Something people use when they can’t think of an argument.

Kids needs both a mom and a dad:
Then how come being a single parent is ok? You’re a hypocrite.
Same here when it comes to parenting too, by the way. People with one parent can still grow up to become pillars of the community, just like any other child. The only things i can think of that would affect the childs upbringing is the environment and the people around him/her. It’s all on an individual level. Like i said before, i think it’s inconsequential.

In summary:
I keep telling myself is that this shouldn’t be a mainstream political debate anywhere. It shouldn’t even be an issue. Retorting the points you often hear, is mindbogglingly easy. The hard part is to make the people that are under the impression that allowing people of different race or same gender to marry, will destroy the fabric of what we hold dear, to understand. From my experience, it’s always the ignorant speaking for the other side. I have yet to read or listen to a cogent and well thought out argument against it.

I’d say that i welcome people to critique and make counter-arguments, but i’ve found myself not feeling up for it once i get a response from someone, so maybe that’s not entirly true. But if you feel inclined to chip in with your thoughts, go right ahead.

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