What if i am wrong about Feminism?

Been pondering a lot of things as of late. During the dull moments of the Howard Stern show, i almost always phase out their banter about some boring celebrities or boobies, to ponder about things. And sometimes, i sit in complete stillness too!
I’m melting down yet another chat i had with my brother, regarding feminism! TJ made a video about some list that a supposed feminist had written.

TJ’s video is as (un)eloquent as ever, and it’s obvious that he’s just taking the shit out of that guy. But who can blame him.. The list is so silly,  that i don’t know what to say. Is the guy in question a troll? Is he for real? Is he even a feminist? How many feminists actually think this way?
The last question, i don’t even understand that i have to ask. Because with all other groups, you get a pretty good grasp of what the consensus within it is! But not with this.

AwesomeRants made a video a few months ago about feminism, where she basically said that it’s a moot term at this point. Because no one seems to know what it even means anymore!

I agree with her. But i would like to add, after a lot of thinking about it. I think feminism is in a crossroad, where it is changing a lot.
I mean, this very aggressive stance to redefine atheism and all of these feminists you find everywhere, who basically espouse the dreary things that this list maker pukes out!
I don’t know. The more i see, the more i’m convinced that they’re indoctrinated! Someone should not be able to proudly say “I went to this feminism study for a week, and it changed my perception of everything!” or “I didn’t know how marginalized and discriminated against i was, until i found feminism”. I mean, it sounds an awful lot like indoctrination! I’m sorry. I just feel that way!

But maybe i’m wrong in my perception of feminism! Maybe i’m just not seeing it! Maybe a naked woman is wrong, and is furthering the objectification of women in society at large! Maybe their conviction holds true, and i’m just a grumpy, dumb conservative.
I’d like to be proven wrong! Show me what feminism is!


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About Get a Grip

Code monkey. Opinionated.

9 responses to “What if i am wrong about Feminism?”

  1. Rose Colored Photo says :

    First I must point out that your brother’s video is White Male privilege on parade. Assuming that male privilege is “peeing standing up” and any other advantage other then that is not worth mentioning shows that he is ignorant of his male privilege. That’s okay, most people are ignorant of their privilege until they are forced into coming to terms with it. If I was not with my Bi Racial girlfriend I probably would not be nearly as aware of my white privilege as I am. I spent years fighting who I was and was granted straight privilege. The lack of that straight privilege makes me well aware of how much it was a part of my life now that it is gone.
    Getting someone to buy you a drink at a bar does not make up for the many other cultural and financial disadvantages that women face. His implication that it does is rather offensive. He also makes it abundantly clear that he has zero interest in examining his own privilege.
    He continues to rant with some rather offensive points that I will gloss over, since it is not the point of your post. He then begs the question “Why do women need special respect?” While I agree with the general point he is making. However I would point out that it needs to be brought up that women need consideration in male dominated career environments because they are at a severe disadvantage. Women are not seeking special consideration they are seeking the same consideration. They are seeking an environment where they are not constantly told to “be nicer” or have every moment of stress read as “emotional” rather than mental stress. They are seeking to be taking seriously and have their contribution taken as seriously as their male counterparts. So women don’t need special consideration they need equal consideration, and that is not present in the work place as a whole. So more effort must be made there.
    Your brother then describes the writer of the post as “sub beta male” for making some points that I think are rather valid. Again what you see is white male privilege on parade through the ranting and arguing with what the feminist writer has to say.
    Your brother clearly starts from the point of view that Feminism is a waste of time and has a negative point of view. He states that the list is asking for special treatment for women, but nothing in the list is asking for special treatment of women. Which brings me to my final point, the answer to your question.
    Feminism is a demand for equality. Not accepting the rape culture, the objectification of women, or the negative aspects of our culture. Feminism is standing up for yourself, and for others and expecting equal and fair treatment. Supporting personal choices and calling people out when they are ignorant.
    If your point of view on feminism is tainted by your brother’s point of view I can understand why you might be confused. I find the video offensive and insulting. While we may agree on the basic points of people being treated fairly and justly, that women don’t need special treatment but rather equal treatment – we are worlds apart on what that actually looks like.

    • jennaisme says :

      Tj isn’t my brother.
      As a Swedish female, I could easily say that I have a huge upper hand from most males on this planet. My Swede privileges gives me a great life here.. Does that mean I can’t complain about other countries and does it mean that I have to shut up when a lowly american speaks? That I should check my Swede privileges every time almost anyone speaks?

      Anyway, I’m not here to refute your points against TJ. I had my own points that you ignored. I’d love to hear your thoughts on those, not TJ’s. I only linked it because it’s where I first heard about that disturbing list.

      • Rose Colored Photo says :

        I apologize – I misunderstood what you were saying and conflated TJ and your brother.
        “Does that mean I can’t complain about other countries and does it mean that I have to shut up when a lowly american speaks?” No. First world problems are still problems and dismissing your own problems because someone else has bigger problems doesn’t help anyone. If I go to a restaurant and my order is messed up I am going to say something and complain. To decide that there are people who don’t have food so I should accept whatever is plopped down in front of me and like it does no one any good.

        Comparably – when I was working as a manager in a big box retail environment I was consistently challenged on being a manager. One was a blatent as to actually say he wanted a “MAN-ager”, others were more subtle. But it was always clear that my gender created a doubt in their mind about my authority, intelligence, knowledge and ability to solve their problem. And this came from all genders. And it pissed me off! I refused to let them make me leave and I pushed right back. And I got angry and I complained afterward. At no point did I accept it and decide that it was better than what so many women through the world endure so I can’t complain.

        I know that I have Western Privilege and a unique perspective on the world – and I will absolutely speak up and even complain about the problems that I see in the world.

        Here is what I won’t do – I won’t tell other women how to feel about their experiences. I won’t debate with them about their personal experiences. And if I am in a position where I am informed that what I did was offensive or wrong, I will listen and give their words serious weight.

        On a more personal example let’s look at my Cisgender privilege. I have many advantages that come from my internal gender matching my birth gender. I am aware of them and I try to be very respectful of those who do not have the same advantage.

        I will still gripe about the problems that arise from being a woman – from biological problems like the pain and inconvenience of periods and the difficulties that come from finding and maintaining bras to the social and economic problems that are still a part of our culture. My cis-privilege does not negate my very real experiences nor devalue them.

        What I won’t do is tell trans* people that their problems are invalid, less valid, or wrong. I will monitor my language and ensure that I respect the preferred pronouns and gender assignment.( When someone who is not present is referred to I will try and establish MTF or FTM quickly only for the purpose of using the correct pronoun out of respect.) When I am called on being rude or offensive I will apologize and correct my language or terms. I do read blogs and articles that will help me understand the struggles of Trans* people in order to be a better ally. Basically doing some of what is on that list that TJ is referring to.

        So you are allowed to complain – so am I. Neither of us should devalue the experiences of others and complaining about your own doesn’t do that. So I think we are good.

        ” I’d love to hear your thoughts on those, not TJ’s. I only linked it because it’s where I first heard about that disturbing list.” Okay back to what you posted in your original blog

        “AwesomeRants made a video a few months ago about feminism, where she basically said that it’s a moot term at this point. Because no one seems to know what it even means anymore!”

        There is a certain amount of logic to what is being said.
        There was a time when what was being fought was clear and easy to define. Starting with the suffragettes and moving forward there were clear and definable obstacles and clear and definable victories. Those battles generated a lot of emotion and anger and gave feminism a bad name for many. As a result a lot of people who agree with the principles have backed away not wanting to be associated with that anger or bitter perception.

        But there is still work to be done. In the same way that there is still work to be done on the civil rights front.

        Feminism means different things to different people. Unfortunately there is some internal fighting where feminists accuse other feminists of not being the right kind of feminist, or a good feminist. And that is doing more damage than anyone else can.

        I can see how a sudden revelation can appear to be indoctrination. But the fact of the matter is that in western culture there is a negative view of women that is pervasive.

        It’s not just about pornographic pictures of naked women. It’s more about how women are portrayed in the media. I challenge you to watch a video on YouTube called “Killing Us Softly” it’s about the negative impact that the media has on the image of women. It opened my eyes. I didn’t watch it and suddenly realized “OMG I’m being repressed!” rather I am more clearly able to see what is really going on in advertisement and it’s not good.

        It’s about how TV and movie stars are portrayed in magazines. Just observe magazine covers for a few months. You will see that the same star can go from being idolized for her svelt and trim figure to being ostracized for being too thin, then later she will be too fat. Women’s bodies are treated as public property to be judged and commented on, and even controlled and legislated.

        So when someone has a revelation don’t assume that it is indoctrination. There are many good things about being female – I am very glad that I am one. There is also a lot of hard and bad things about it too.

        “But maybe i’m wrong in my perception of feminism! Maybe i’m just not seeing it! Maybe a naked woman is wrong, and is furthering the objectification of women in society at large! Maybe their conviction holds true, and i’m just a grumpy, dumb conservative.
        I’d like to be proven wrong! Show me what feminism is!”

        I think you are wrong about feminism. Try going beyond the list of how to be a good male feminist. I would challenge you to think about what qualities make a good Trans* Ally and see if those are not the same qualities that would make a good feminist or male ally.

  2. isobeldebrujah says :

    Why should someone not be able to go to a feminism study for a week and have it change their perception? I mean yes, in an ideal world, no one would need these kind of things to understand privilege and how it works, just like cis people shouldn’t need to be educated about trans rights and cis privilege, but we don’t live in an ideal world. If the video is indoctrination THIS BLOG is trans indoctrination. In fact, the accusation of indoctrination is exactly what conservatives and those who hate you and me and most other people, use to dismiss and devalue your experience.

    It’s true that modern feminism has problems and among these are, the voices of trans women are less valued than they should be. This post is a stunning example of part of the reason why. You’re still clinging to your male privilege. Worse, you’re denying that it exists. Luckily, there’s an easy way to overcome that.

    I want you to view this video not through the eyes of someone who is clinging to the privilege expressed in the video but rather one of the people that the video is targeting. And I want to warn you that some of what I write next are going to be entirely offensive. I’m going to try and keep it on roughly the same level of offensive to members of the trans community that the video is to many members of the feminist community. But I do want acknowledge that my words are offensive. I am sorry for any paint that I cause, however, I feel that pain is a necessary teaching tool.

    “OMG, he’s trying to indoctrinate people into thinking that being a tranny is OK!” Because in supporting this video you’ve normalized and approved of the use of the word pussy as a descriptor. Why is that OK with you? And, you know, if someone’s words are so ridiculous and lack so much value that you’re going to spend a whole video mocking them and deliberately mispronouncing their name and making it clear that you don’t care if you correctly identify them then why would you care if you correctly identify their gender?

    “Of course, everyone’s treated differently! Trannys can walk into a bar and get free drinks! I don’t get free drinks! They get to wear pretty clothes and makeup! Do you see me complaining?”

    Because it’s totally about the drinks and the outfits and the makeup right? It’s not at all about being treated with basic human dignity or respect. Oh wait, it really is.

    The fundamental question of the video you posted and agreed with is pretty obviously, “why should a male have to give a shit that women are treated differently?” The answer is, to do otherwise makes you an asshole who is suffering from basic compassion fail and is an enemy of women. Think about the number of people who want to prevent members of the trans community from living with basic rights, respect and human dignity. Think about the people who want to force you to use the men’s room because THEY don’t like you or the fact that you want to live normally and be treated like everyone else. Someone who refuses to acknowledge that trans people are treated differently and that different treatment can cause mental, emotional and physical harm is an asshole, is suffering a basic compassion fail and an enemy of the trans community. The same is true of this video. Don’t be an asshole.

  3. Candy Kowal says :

    Those of us trying to define, establish, and defend equal political, economic, and social rights for women also defend our rights as a feminine person.
    To be feminine as a male, we have to be the champions who challenge those who would otherwise demean or dismiss feminine behavior … I thing being feminine is a endearing quality that frees perceptions and allows society to be more open and resourceful. I is interesting that women can be for feminism, but not when it comes to those of us males who are feminine….we have two genders who can be against feminism….and that is of concern. We can only hope those women who think along those terms, can realize, we are a asset to the cause!

    • jennaisme says :

      I don’t consider myself male by any stretch. I call myself a woman.. But I’ve got to wonder about the gender binary to begin with. And I feel feminists, among other things, has a twisted view on it. I don’t think it’s quite that simple. But I agree with you, overall. We should strive to make femininity a thing of beauty! Because it is ^w^

      • isobeldebrujah says :

        You may not consider yourself male but you’re showing an outstanding amount of male privilege.

      • jennaisme says :

        You have no idea what you’re talking about. You should consider it a privilege if you’re cis. To have to go through what me and other transsexuls has to go through.. Why, I wouldn’t wish it upon anyone. And here you are, discriminating against me, on my own blog. You’re part of the reason why transsexuls has it hard in this world. Get informed.

      • jennaisme says :

        I’m saying what I’m saying because i have male privileges, is what you’ve told me. So I will say that you’re saying what you’re saying because you have cis privileges, and we’ll leave it at that. Thank you. Asshole.

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